May 4, 2018 | Net Health

3 Minute Read

[Podcast] Education in Physical Therapy w/Dr. Brent Brookbush, DPT

Healthy, Wealthy, & Smart Episode 345: Education in Physical Therapy

Karen Litzy and Dr. Brent Brookbush talk about the state of physical therapy education, emerging education models, how multimedia can enrich the learning experience, solutions to rising costs of physical therapy tuition, and more! Dr. Brookbush is a CEO, educator, author, speaker, and an independent clinician in NYC.

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Welcome to the Healthy, Wealthy, and Smart Podcast. Each week we interview the best and brightest in physical therapy, wellness, and entrepreneurship. We give you cutting edge information you need to live your best life healthy, wealthy, and smart. The information in this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be used as personalized medical advice. And now, here’s your host, Dr. Karen Litzy.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. Today’s episode is brought to you by the fine folks at Net Health. If you’re unfamiliar with Net Health, they are ReDoc powered by xfit, which is a cloud-based, fully-integrated EMR and billing solution. Plus, you can opt in to completely outsource billing services, which is the best way to optimize your revenue, which is what we all want if we own our own business. So imagine PT billing, coding, and compliance experts taking the back office work off of your hands and reporting to you to free you up to treat your patients. To learn more about ReDoc and the complete revenue cycle management services, check them out at Or you can go to and click on the Net Health icon on the homepage and it’ll take you right to their page for more information.

Now on to today’s episode with Dr. Brent Brookbush. So Dr. Brookbush has been an impassioned human movement professionals since 1998, a passion that can only be matched by his love for education. Developing a presentation style focused on the clear and engaging delivery of evidence-based, practical education. He has been a resource for industry giants, such as New York Sports Clubs, Equinox, NASM, SHAPE magazine, Power Plate, Beachbody, et cetera. As the Founder and CEO of the Brookbush Institute of Human Movement Science, Dr. Brookbush continues to revolutionize education in the industry with cutting-edge online resources, live workshops, academic support for universities, as well as providing consulting and print publications. He continues to pursue his passion as CEO, educator, author, and speaker, as well as practicing as an independent clinician in New York City.

So what do we talk about in today’s episode? We discuss the evolution of physical therapy education and emerging education models, ways multimedia can enrich the learning experience for different learning styles, simple solutions to rising costs of physical therapy tuition and student debt, and a little bit more about the Brookbush Institute. So this was a nice discussion on education. And if you are a physical therapist and you’re thinking about where you can get some education and how you can further your education, this is a great episode to listen to. And if you’re thinking about going into the PT profession, we talk about a lot of different programs out there. So everyone, I hope you enjoy this episode and have a great day.

Hey, Brent, welcome to the podcast. Happy to have you on,

Hey, Karen. It’s great to be on. Thank you for having me on.

Anytime. And now in the beginning, before we started, I read your more formal bio here, but can you kind of fill in the blanks for all of the listeners out there to give them a better idea as to how you got to where you are now?

Yeah, I started in the performing arts, I was a jazz trombone player, and I actually had a lip injury that ended my career. At the time, I was already personal training. That was kind of my waitering job, I guess you could call it, back then. And then I just kind of let the personal training thing take over and I got my first teaching gig at New York Sports Club, which a lot of you guys might know, like Boston Sports Club, Washington Sports Clubs, the TSI network. And I just kind of fell in love with the whole education piece. And then of course I started taking on more education myself in the form of a bachelor’s, master’s, and of course, doctorate in physical therapy.

Yeah, and I just kept going, I mean, I’ve educated for New York Sports Club, Equinox, I was with NASM, the National Academy of Sports Medicine, for seven years. And of course, at some point I decided to go off the rails and start experimenting with some of these larger ideas I had in education and start testing stuff and bashing stuff against the wall and trying to see if I could come up with a better solution for education. Of course from a technical side, like my love is human movement science and performance and rehab on that side of things, and I spent a lot of the time with these predictive models of postural dysfunction. Of course I love to geek out about that stuff, but a lot of my career has just been driven towards, how can we deliver that information in a better delivery system?

I think there’s a lot of smart people out there, I don’t think there’s a lot of great educators out there. Not to cut anybody down, but I think there’s a lot of smart people who haven’t really spent much time looking at education science and what the best way to deliver that is for retention, comprehension, and application.

Okay. So let’s talk about this, let’s talk about education, because with technology, education in all realms, but certainly in physical therapy, is changing. Whereas when I went to school, all of the education was in classroom, whether that be didactic or lab, and now we’ve got different hybrid models of an online didactic and then you’re going into lab for a couple of weeks per year. Or even after graduation, now we’ve got a lot of online courses that are pretty comprehensive. So what are your thoughts on where education was for PT and where it is now?

Okay. So good question, where it was and where it is now, I think is fairly unchanged. Unfortunately, I think PT schools for the most part are lagging severely behind what’s happening in education science and technology. The hybrid model that you’re talking about, I think is the future. No doubt. There’s no reason … For example, clinical anatomy is a didactic course. It’s almost all lecture. I’m not talking about cadaver lab here, I’m just talking about the clinical part where you’re reading through a textbook. There’s no reason why that can’t be put on video. There’s no reason why they can’t be put into an interactive text form online. And of course, when you bring that education piece into it, I can actually do so much more with, we’ll say a blog post to keep it simple. But in a blog post, I can take your text, I can link it to other related articles, I can link it to a popup glossary, I can add videos, I can have a comment box on the bottom that you can privately message me, as your instructor.

Like there’s just so much more I can do with that than sitting in a class for three hours, which you may or may not have needed to do as a particular student, or maybe you didn’t need three hours, you needed five hours. Online gives you all of those opportunities. And probably most importantly, and I think this is where things are going to get really crazy in the future, live classes are very, very expensive to run. Online courses are only expensive to set up and then they’re really cheap to run. So I think we have a chance here to bring down tuition costs significantly. And we know that college tuitions have outpaced inflation over the last two decades by something like 800%. So we need to work on that.

And it sounds like with an online program, you can get a little bit more multimedia. So you can, like you said, add videos, add charts, you can even bring in podcasts, things like that, to help to enrich the learning experience because we know every student learns differently. So having different options for those students might make for a better educational experience, right?

Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, we include it all in our website and that’s exactly our thinking process. Like, however you want the information, we’re going to provide it for you. And I can do that because once I set up the course, I’ve set up the course. It’s really challenging when you’re teaching a live workshop to address, let’s just keep a really simple model of kinesthetic audio and visual learners. That’s actually not so easy to do when you’re teaching. To make sure that you have people actually able to work with their hands and feel what they’re supposed to do and you have some sort of visual aid and you’re talking to the people who need the audio. Like that’s a very hard thing to juggle when you’re teaching. Some teachers do it very well, and let’s be real honest, some teachers don’t.

It’s interesting too, once we get into the university level, to teach at the high school, you need a master’s degree in education, to teach at the university level, you don’t need a degree in education at all. So you got to wonder how many university professors actually have even the background to try to juggle that type of stuff, which is just yet another advantage to this online thing. Like you can hire somebody actually to help you with instructional design. And since you only have to set it up once, those costs are amortized over a much longer period of time.

And in talking about educational science, I know you had mentioned that in the beginning, what do you feel like the physical therapy educational system … For now, let’s take the DPT setup or the graduate school into the DPT program set up. From an educational science background, what do you feel is missing and what do you feel is there?

Great question. So adults want some choice over the education that they get. So I think that’s a big piece that’s missing from the DPT programs that are there now. I think we’re pretty much dictated to for three years, we have very little choice. I’ve heard that some larger programs have some electives that you can take in your third year. So if you want to focus on outpatient orthopedics, you can take some more advanced orthopedic classes, or if you want to focus on neuro, you can take some more advanced neuro stuff, but I don’t think that’s the norm yet.

I also think that DPT school is didactically driven and unfortunately the adult learner really wants to know how this is going to apply to their life. And if you think about that from a very practical standpoint, what they really want to know is application first. So how am I going to practice? What is it going to look like when I get to work? What do I have to do on Monday morning with patient one? And go backwards from there. Instead, we spend, I would have to imagine that 80% of our education, if not 90%, is all didactic learning. And we spend so little time when you’re in school on assessment and practical application. I mean, you get out into your first clinical affil and you feel like you’re going to die. It’s really overwhelming.

But is that not what those clinical affiliations are meant for so that you sort of have that educational base when you go in? Because if you’re in your first clinical, if I were a clinical instructor and I’m getting someone on their first clinical, I wouldn’t expect them to really have a lot of the skills that they would need, but that’s kind of where that clinical instructor comes in and that’s the extension of the educational model. So that’s kind of what that’s for, right?

Okay. So let’s take what I just talked about and like break it out even further. I made a comment about any high school teacher has to have a master’s degree in education, at least in the state of New York. I don’t know about the rest of the country, but I’m assuming that they have to have some degree in education. Most university professors don’t have a background in education. And now you’re going to take it one step farther and tell me that my clinical instructor, who has no background in education nor is actually part of the education system, is going to be responsible for the most important part of the educational sequence? I think you’re taking a huge risk on the quality of student that’s actually going to come out of that program. I mean, if we get really real about this and the stuff that nobody wants to talk about, how many good clinical instructors did you have out of maybe the four you had in your PT program?

I was very happy with my clinical instructors. Granted, one of them was also one of my university instructors.

What if we actually measured them though? So you’re happy and that’s good. Again, I would be very interested to see what the statistics are across the board.

Yeah, that I don’t know.

I can tell you that my clinical instructor experience was like 50/50. I think when I actually look about what some of the stuff I was taught, I’m not sure that they would all rate really well. And how could you expect them to, they’re trying to run their 40 hour week gig and teach you on top of it. It’s kind of a weird system we have set up. And I’m not saying that clinical affiliations aren’t important, I’m saying they’re very important, but I’m saying you can’t leave education up to non-educators.

Then the question becomes is, what do we do about these clinical affiliations for the students? Because this is where they’re getting that hands on instruction and the APTA does have a credential clinical instructor program. I have not gone through it, I don’t know a lot about it, but I know that it exists. So are then all the clinical instructors expected to have a master’s in education as well, in order to be a clinical instructor?

Well, so I think you have to back up a step and there is actually a solution to this problem that’s a little easier than the road we’re going down, which is no, your education when you’re in school with your university professors should be practically-based. Your didactic learning should probably be online. You get what I’m saying? So that by the time you get to your clinical affiliation, what you should actually be getting from your clinical affiliation is practice doing the things you learned in school and getting a taste of what it’s like to be managed within a system you might be working in. It’s supposed to be work experience, not education. And there’s a huge difference there. You can’t expect … Like, I remember my first affil, there was no chance to learn anything because it was just a matter of like shock and awe on a daily basis. Like you just walk in and it’s like, “Holy cow, this is what I’m going to do?”

There’s a little bit of that information overload when you get in. Just the idea of answering to your boss and what the schedule feels like and how many patients you’re supposed to get through a day and how the flow of a session goes and what the average patient looks like and what are the red flags you’re supposed to be looking for and all that little stuff. Like not tripping over or not putting tubes and stuff or IVs in the way. Like all that little practical stuff, that’s what we need to learn on a clinical affil. If you expect to learn a posterior to anterior shoulder joint mobilization when you get to your clinical affil, you’re done.

Because I think education has changed a little bit in schools, I mean, I see it in my alma mater, and I’m wondering if there are any studies that compare being prepared for your clinical affiliations maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago, versus what it is now. I speak to a lot of students and the students that I speak to, granted this is like a very, very small sample size, feel like they are prepared when they go out onto their clinical evaluations. I just got a note today from a student who started an affiliation in a hospital and he was surprised at how prepared he was. Obviously, getting into the groove of learning how to do the paperwork, his paperwork is different in every clinical setting. But I would be curious to know what students feel over the past couple of years, if they felt they’ve been ready. Because I don’t have the information on that and I don’t know if that’s out there. Do you know if that’s out there somewhere?

I don’t actually.

Yeah. I think that would be a really interesting thing to look at, is how prepared do these students feel coming out of school when they’re going into their first clinical evaluation? I mean, aside from being overwhelmed and a little nervous, which are perfectly normal human things to feel on your first clinical affiliation.

Sure, maybe me personally, I had a more on the negative, maybe it was on the other side of the bell curve, right? Which is fine, because it’s driven me to build an education company, I guess it all turned out okay. But yeah, I think there’s something a little wrong and again, it’s not that there’s something wrong with the clinical affiliations, we do need to take that step back. My point was more that it’s wrong to expect your clinical advisor to teach you techniques and assessments. Your techniques and assessments you really should be learning the practice portion of this in school so that when you affil, you can practice the techniques you’ve learned, not trying to pick up new techniques.

When you have that real patient in, things can get a little bit more interesting. But I think that’s obviously in a good way because that’s what you’re being prepped for when you graduate, is to jump right in and start seeing those patients. And now another thing that I know, I don’t know what your take is on this, that the APTA at one point was kind of talking about having new graduates go right into a residency program. Like almost a mandatory residency program.

I think it’s a terrible idea.

I mean, they’re not doing it, by the way, because I think they heard from a lot of people and they’re not doing that. But okay, that was very easy. So why would you say it’s a terrible idea?

Yeah. So look, I’m a huge fan of my colleagues. So if you asked me whose side I’m on, I’m always on the side of the student, I’m always on the side of the colleague, right? When you look at the amount of debt that physical therapists are taking on right now, compared to what we make as a profession, it’s absurd, and you add a residency and that’s going to go up. The APTA has to stop chasing the medical model. If they want to watch this whole thing fall apart, they can keep chasing physicians who are demanding 250,000 plus per year, force us into the same amount of debt, knowing that we’re only going to get … What’s the top physical therapists make? 100, 120,000 about five years out of school.

Yeah, I’m sure there’s variations depending on where you live, but …

Sure. And of course there’s more successful people who make way outside of that curve and stuff. And I’m not putting anyone down, but like what’s the average job? 60 to $70,000 a year?

Right out of school I think it’s between 70 and 80.

All right. So I doubt that’s the average, Karen, I would have to look that up. I would bet that the average is actually a little bit lower if we looked countrywide. But I’m hearing stories more and more of 250 to $500,000 in debt by the time somebody is out of DPT school. Well, what type of student loan payment is that? So you’re coming out with $70,000 salary and that sounds fantastic to most of the country, and I’m not doubting that that is fantastic, but then you have to realize that $70,000 divided by 12 comes out to what? About 5,500 to 6,000 a month pre-tax. After tax that’s something like 4,500 and this person has a $2,000 a month student loan bill. So their actual income is closer to somebody making 30 or $40,000 a year. Like I can’t get behind that. And I can’t believe that the APTA actually considered it.

Yeah, it was on the table. It is no longer on the table. Going back to different models, I think that’s where that hybrid model can kind of come into play because I believe they are a little less expensive than a full time model. As a matter of fact, I think USC just came out with a hybrid model as well. So it’ll be interesting to see kind of what happens to the DPT education moving forward as you get more and more mainstream universities moving into this sort of hybrid online, couple weeks per year in person model. So I don’t know, I’m curious to see how that goes. And on that note, we are just going to take a very quick break to hear from our sponsor and we will be right back in about 30 seconds.

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And we are back. I am here with Brent Brookbush and we are talking about educational systems in the DPT program. So we talked a little bit about that. So Brent, let’s talk about what happens after you graduate. Because we don’t stop going to educational programs after we graduate, we have to keep up, right? So where does that fit in now with these new grads who maybe do have a lot of debt and they can’t travel to a lot of different courses and things like that. So where does education happen outside of school?

Well, I think there will always be a place for live workshops and we know that that’s been driving the continuing education market for the better part of the last, I would imagine, four or five decades, at least the last two. When I’ve primarily been, throughout my career, a workshop teacher, that’s what I did for TSI and Equinox and NASM. I mean, there was years where I was doing between 30 and 40 weekend workshops per year, but I think I’ve watched attendance to those events really drop, especially in the last five or six years. I remember being with a larger company and we were able to pull like a hundred people to a workshop, but by the time I left that company, it wasn’t totally uncommon to see six people show up to the same workshop.

Now that could be a lot of different factors going on in their business too, but I think overall that’s just the trend we’re seeing and it’s getting replaced by online education. I’ve seen it in my own business. So the history of the Brookbush Institute is we started as a consulting company for training and development of fitness departments, like personal training departments. And then I realized consulting really wasn’t that scalable. So we started a live workshop company and we decided to do a little online support. Well, the online support took off and now we’re an online education company with live workshop support. So our model has totally flipped to just match the traffic that we’re getting, just as any business would, I suppose. There’s a lot of huge advantages, which we talked about with online learning, it’s just super convenient. And with the new multimedia technology out there, you can make this experience so engrossing, it really does away with the need for a lot of live education.

There will always be a need for live education, but you can do so much of it online. And I mean the Brookbush Institute just launched an app. I mean, we literally have now one to four hour courses that you can do on your phone and get your certificate and everything added to your account. And our hope is literally that people like you, Karen, have a cancellation and be like, “Oh, let me go…I was looking at that serratus anterior activation course from the Brookbush Institute and that looked interesting. Let me go knock this out. I’m going to go pull up the app on my phone.” You don’t need anything special. You just sit down and you crank out a course, take a little multiple choice test, and you got another hour of CEC done.

I think it’s interesting that you started out with the in-person model and then went to an online model, and now it’s mainly online with a little bit of in-person. I find that a little bit more recently, maybe over the last year or two, that a lot of people are kind of craving more in-person meetups, more in-person workshops and things like that to meet people in-person, to network. I mean, I think there’s always going to be both, but I’ve just seen personally more of this need to kind of be around people versus always being online. Do you know what I mean? And I don’t know if that’s because you have the rise of different social media platforms, which are amazing, but now are we getting too online and now people are kind of craving a little bit more of that offline in real life experience. I don’t know if that’s something you’ve experienced with any of your courses.

Yeah. I mean, the pendulum’s going to swing and balance out at some point, right? So I think we’re just going through this phase, and you’re kind of hitting the nail on the head, where it used to be a hundred percent live and now maybe it’s swung to 70 or 80% online, and we’re going to find that the actual balance is somewhere between like 65% online and 35% live. The industry is going to find a balance, that’s what I guess capitalism is really all about. The consumer will tell us what they want. But we’ll always have live workshops. Right now we have a corrective or therapeutic exercise workshop, we have a resistance training program design workshop, and we’ll likely have a manual therapy workshop by the end of the year.

And the nice thing about us having this huge online platform is our live workshops get to be all practical. So we can just literally refer back to the site. For example, you don’t know why I’m activating the gluteus medius and gluteus maximus for lower extremity dysfunction. Well, you can look up our article on lower extremity dysfunction and we have all the research laid out for you. Let’s just get into practicing and having fun right now, rather than going into a two hour lecture on lower extremity dysfunction.

Having people do the prep work before they get there so that once they get there, they can really concentrate on the things that they’re going to a live course to learn, in the case of physical therapy, which may be the hands on stuff, or maybe being able to really be present and really be engaged with that presenter.

And realize that we have … Like for us, we have all of our stuff on video too. So that takes what you just said, you can really be present because you don’t even have to worry about a hundred percent retention or taking perfect notes. Like you just need to get the gist, like we tell people all the time in our workshops, like we just want you to feel confident and comfortable. If you feel confident and comfortable, you can look other techniques up. I mean, once you understand, let’s say, just going back to this example of gluteus medius and gluteus maximus activation, once you understand a couple exercises, you can look up the progressions and regressions. You didn’t need me standing over you for that, you just needed to watch a video. You’re good to go. I think that’s where education is heading, obviously. I think it’s really cool.

Yeah, no, and I agree. I mean, I went a couple of … Was it last year? I think it was last year, last November, or maybe it was the November before. I can’t remember. I went to see Explain Pain 3, or EP3, live with Lorimer Moseley and David Butler. And it was because I have already read a lot of their work and I have already read Explain Pain, I mean, I hadn’t read Explain Pain Supercharged yet, but I felt like I learned so much from being in the room and just being present and watching them as they take examples from people out of the audience and really get people engaged, that it made that in-person experience so much more beneficial.

Sure. I mean, we hope that people are doing the same thing with our stuff. And I think, like I said, that’s kind of where it’s all headed. They have their book and they have a website. I’m not sure they’ve tried to set themselves up as an online education platform, but it’s great that they have all those resources there.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, no, I think most of their courses are in-person, but I mean, because you’re really going to learn from Lorimer, David, or Peter O’Sullivan. Being able to learn from them in-person and being in the same room with them, it’s just really a great experience.

Yeah. I think you’re kind of hitting where the live portion of education is going to be. I think it’s going to be a lot more boutiquey.

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, exactly.

It’s going to be a lot more special. I think the companies … And again, I don’t mean to throw anybody under the bus in particular. I think those companies that are teaching basic education in a live scenario and they have no online or no mixed education and they have no plans of changing it, I think they’re going to disappear. The way this online thing is driving, it’s like you either get on the hybrid model or you get out because … I mean, honestly all the things we’ve brought up, it’s better, right? Can you honestly say that live is better than a hybrid model? I don’t think you can because you just don’t have the support. You can’t rewatch a live workshop.

Unless they film it.

Right. Which they’re not supposed to.

Unless they film it and somebody throws it up online somewhere or they throw it up with … Like I was just at sports conference in Copenhagen and they did film a couple of those things and put it up on their app. So you can kind of watch some of them up on the app, which was nice. But again, that is a once a year conference versus ongoing continuing education that’s happening a couple times a year. It’s like going to CSM, right? There’s 17,000 people there and there’s so many educational platforms going on throughout the day, you just can’t get to all of them. I mean, I think it would be awesome if at least half of them were filmed and then you can … Which I think they filmed some of them. And how do you as the clinician or as the educator, how do you keep up with your required education?

Great question. A couple years ago, I finished my COMT through Maitland. So that was quite an undertaking and I finished that and I’m glad. I do various workshops when friends of mine who are also educators are in town, but honestly as the editor-in-chief of this education company I have on my hands, like I’m just pounded with research and articles and all of the projects that we’re working on, it doesn’t make it … It’s more than enough, let’s put it that way. Like I just finished our update of the lumbopelvic hip complex dysfunction model, that article’s 120 pages long, it has 550 citations. And what are we going to do now? Like I just published that last month, well now I have the posterior oblique sling, anterior oblique sling, and intrinsic stabilization subsystem articles to updates, so that’s another few hundred research studies I got to go through. I have my 10 writers handing me research reviews on a weekly basis. I have three of those senior writers working on white papers on three huge topics that are between 10 and 15,000 words a piece. Like I continuously just eat textbooks-

That’s good.

I don’t know how to explain it.

That’s good. Yeah. Like we said, everybody kind of gets in their education differently, so you have to, I think, find an educational platform that works for you, whether that be pouring through textbooks and research articles … Well, I think everybody should do at least one research article a week. But pouring through textbooks or research articles, if you’re that kind of learner, I think that’s amazing. Being able to learn things online, going to live classes and workshops and conferences, I think that they’re all valid and you just have to pick the one that works best for you and works best with your learning style.

Sure. I mean, we publish a research review a week, so I’m with you on the research article a week. Those research reviews, like our real goal is to translate a research paper, which is essentially written for another researcher, into something that a clinician finds really handy and easy to take in. So we’re kind of like the translators on that one. It’s a great project. Essentially, we’re creating the largest annotated bibliography of human movement science out there.

But yeah, I agree with you. I think the lecture idea at the end of every one of our workshops is what I call have an educational game plan. And of course I’d love for people to join, and I think the value at 19.99 a month is a little insane not to, but I’m like, “Hey, if you guys didn’t like the workshop,” and there’s always a chance that they didn’t like the workshop, whatever, it didn’t match what they wanted. Just find something and then once you find it, like have a plan, don’t just go, “Oh, I’m going to do education.” No, I’m going to do a workshop every six months, or I’m going to work on this online platform and do a course per month. But whatever it is, you just got to stick to it.

Yep. And that is always the hard part, is the sticking to it part. Now, before we end, I just have one last question and it’s a question that I ask everyone. And that is, if you were to give yourself advice as a new grad, knowing where you are now in your life and in your career, what advice would you give to yourself?

Great question. So much of success is built upon foresight and being able to strategize around how to get to a finish line, knowing that you’re going to hit obstacles. I think if I started over again, I’d want to know a little bit more about stuff like game theory. Sit down, think about what you want in the next five years, have backup plans for every step of the way, because you’re going to hit obstacles. And then for me personally, knowing my personality, I would have tried to talk myself out of being so such a fighter and so combative with my obstacles and rather just fall to my backup plans and work arounds so that I can keep moving forward without taking so many hits to the jaw.

Great advice. I think that’s great advice, very well said. And now if people want to find out more about you, where can they find you? And just as an FYI, all of this information will be one click away on the podcast at But if people are listening and they want to find you right now, where can they do that?

Well, obviously the website is or And that’s my goal right now, is to increase access to education for everybody at a much better price and make everything easy to find. I mean, I’m all over the internet, like just about every social media platform you can think of. If I’m not somewhere you’d like me to be, please let me know. I’ll try to get there. Yeah, man, I’m just a big fan of the student and my colleagues. You can find me on, just trying to try to help.

Perfect. Well, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day today coming on the podcast. I appreciate it. And everyone out there listening, thank you so much. I hope that you learned a lot today and maybe now you can go forth and have your educational plan. So like Brent said, write it down, what do you want to do? Who do you want to learn from? And the hardest part of course is sticking to it. So thanks Brent for coming on.

For sure.

And everyone out there listening, have a great day and stay healthy, wealthy, and smart.

And a big thank you to Brent for coming on the podcast this week. And of course, to our sponsor Net Health for sponsoring today’s podcast. So if you want to expand your visit capacity, get paid for your services, ramp up patient engagement, and keep them coming back, which is kind of what we want, and finally, eliminate worries about documentation and compliance, then check out ReDoc power by xfit, a cloud-based, fully-integrated EMR and billing solution. To learn more about ReDoc and complete revenue cycle management services, check them out at

Thank you for listening and please subscribe to the podcast at And don’t forget to follow us on social media.

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